Pocher Ducati building tips

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Pocher Ducati building tips

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Pocher Ducati building tips

Postby ScaleAutoWorks » Sat Feb 06, 2016 2:39 pm

After a quick search I didn't notice anyone calling out errors/ommissions/helpful tips for this kit, so I'll post a summary here of what I find and update this first post as I go so you don't have to search the whole thread. I'm doing a quick, mostly box stock build to familiarize myself with the kit and compile a list of replacement fasteners, as I plan to display one with fairings off and I'll want to replace many of the visible Phillips head screws that are used to assemble the model. In a perfect world the kit would be assembled with scale-correct bolts and socket head fasteners, but knowing the high cost of producing these I realize the Phillips head screws were a necessary compromise that help keep the price lower and assembly easier. I love the kit and am having a good time with it so far. There will always be manufacturing compromises unless money is no object, and if it was not I'd be building (and riding) the 1:1 bike instead. :D

general update and long summary [as of March 6]:
As I finish up my build, I'm not as concerned with most of the Phillips screws as I was initially. Unless you are displaying the model with the fairings removed most of the engine fasteners are hidden. The black screw heads are not too bad a substitute viewed a few feet away for the black socket head fasteners they mimic in many places (attaching fairings, plastic parts, hand controls, etc. on the real bike). If you won't plan/need to disassemble it, drilling a shallow hole in the center of the screw head to vaguely mimic the socket head is even more convincing.
There are a few glaring exceptions: I have replaced the black screws on the engine case covers that are visible with the fairings mounted, with miniature hex bolts I already had on hand, as well as in some other prominent spots like the rear brake master cylinder mount. I will also sand the screw heads that secure the rear sprocket down to bare metal so they blend in better - on the real bike these are a unique fastener that will be hard to source. Short of grinding away cast-in bolt heads and machining your own Ducati-specific replacements (which that guy in Germany has done), there is not an easy solution for many fasteners.

The bottom line (financial pun intended) with a metal kit this big, is it is exponentially more expensive to manufacture compared to a smaller and/or mostly plastic kit. While the large size makes detail errors more obvious than in a smaller scale, compromises must be made to keep the ease of assembly and selling price acceptable to a wide enough range of modellers to predict a profit for the manufacturer. The list of 1/8 scale kits that have attempted a better level of detail is very short, and these kits were produced by very small companies (sometimes only one person) that took a big risk. The infamous Promocom Ferrari 126 C2 F1 kit http://www.scaleautoworks.com/Ferrari126C2.html did a pretty good job being true to the real car, but even then most of the scale fasteners were "dummies" cast in white metal and glued in place. The Autograph transkit for the old Pocher Ferrari F40 did it best in my experience, and necessarily cost many times more that the kit it was enhancing.

I am not an impartial observer: my lively hood depends on these large scale kits. But I am more familiar than most with the economics and history of these kits, and Pocher in particular. I also love building them. I accept the large scale and its necessary compromises as a challenge to improve what I'm given, the ultimate challenge being they are large enough to add every nut, bolt, screw, clamp, wire, zip tie, and even leather stitch of the real thing.

    general notes:
    1. These tips are based on my experience building one kit. Some will be universal to all kits, some may be due to manufacturing variations, some will be based on my personal solutions to what you may or may not consider a problem. Build your kit to your own liking, but use these tips as a preview to possible problems and solutions.

    2. The screws in the kit are soft enough to be cut/shortened with sturdy wire cutting pliers or large Xuron type flush cutters.

    3. I am building this one without tapping any holes. The larger screws need some extra muscle and care not to strip heads, but it is doable. The next one will go together much easier while using 2.3 mm and 2.0 mm taps. update: I broke a screw today, drilled it out, then realized my restock of taps came in a few days ago and started using them :doh: . Still not absolutely necessary, but makes things so much easier.

    4. Most of the plastic parts are nicely finished, the glaring exception being the gray parts (radiators, starter, fuel cap, fittings, etc) that depict metal parts but still look too much like, well, plastic. Spray the complete sprues with an aluminum color before starting and be done with it except for minor touch-ups. I use automotive paint straight from the spray can.

    5. Metallic Decals!: The metallic "Ducati" decals require advance planning and precise placement. The adhesive backing sticks instantly and aggressively wherever it first contacts the part, so place it carefully the first time as it will not slide around to adjust the position as a traditional water decal will.

    6. The routing of wires and hoses in the assembly manual is not always clear. A very helpful resource is the full set of official parts diagrams here http://www.ducati.com/services/maintenance/index.do . Use the "spare parts catalog" drop-down menus on the right side of the page to select 2015 Superbike 1299 Panigale S.

    step-specific notes:

    step 1 (bottom of page 4 in the paper manual): part # W-05 (clear oil level window) has no means of staying in place on part DCE-03. Use a thin strip of double-stick tape, or a careful application of clear (non-CA) glue on the locating pegs to hold it in place.
    Image
    step 1 (again; see image above): when attaching part #DCE-03 with "S" screws, the two rear-most screws (below the oil filler cap) are too long for the holes provided and will break if you force them tight. Shorten them by 1.-1.5 mm before installing.

    step 5 (bottom of page 6 in the manual): the "G" screws that attach part # T-09 to the engine are too long and need to be cut down 1 mm before installing.
    step 5 part 2 (bottom of page 6 in the manual): wires RF-03 and RF-04 seem to disappear vaguely behind parts T-09 and battery box P-13. After consulting the real Ducati parts manual I found that wire RF-03 should be glued into a groove behind part T-09. Wire RF-04 on the real bike connects to the battery through an opening in the top right back of the battery box part P-13, so I drilled a hole and glued it in place.
    Image

    step 9 (page 10): placement of frame decal WD-12 is not shown well, but I found a helpful photo in my stash:
    Image

    step 10 (page 11): shorten "B" screws 1 mm before attaching radiators # N-05 and L-04/L-012 to metal part # DCB-03
    Image

    step 12 (very bottom of page 14): screws "H" through the plastic upper radiator do not line up with the steering assembly above. I had to widen the holes in the plastic radiator to attach these parts correctly.
    Image

    tires/wheels: I used very fine sandpaper (2400 grit) to take the shine off the tread, submerged them in 130-140 degree F. water for 3-4 minutes, dried them well, and they were pliable enough to fit onto the wheels fairly easily.
    hand grips: parts O-09 & O-10 on page 26 should get the same treatment as the tires; they should have a rubbery look, not a shiny finish.

    step 14 (page 18): I had to debur the inside of the lower triple clamp (part # DCF-27) and use some grease to get the fork tubes DCS-03/04 to slide into proper position.
    Image

    step 15 (top of page 19): the two rear-most "B" screws on parts F-01/F-02 must be shortened a few millimeters, as the metal holes that accept them are very shallow.
    Image

    step 16 part 1 (top of page 21): screw "C" that attaches part V-08 to metal part DCF-26 should be shortened by 1-1.5 mm, or it may bottom in the hole and break.
    Image

    step 16 part 2 (bottom of page 21): the bearing DCF-43/44 that must turn in the swing-arm to adjust chain tension had a rough cast outer surface that would not allow it to turn. I cleaned it up with sandpaper, as well as the mating surface of the swingarm which was thick with textured paint. Don't smooth these out too much, as the fit needs to tighten when the swing-arm cap DCF-41 is assembled.
    Image

    step 16 part 3 (top of page 22): the rear brake rotor BD-03 is "keyed" to the rear axle; if it doesn't sit flat, rotate it 90 degrees so the pins on the axle face line up with the extra holes in the rotor tabs.
    Image

    step 16 part 4 (bottom of page 22): I assembled the swing arm and rear wheel, and the rear axle had some slop in the "bearing" (I may have cleaned up a rough spot on the axle a little too much). I cut some very thin (almost foil) brass sheet carefully to size and wrapped it around the complete bearing surface of the axle; now it spins freely without wobbling.

    step 18 (bottom of page 24): the folding footpegs DCF-33 are right and left specific, even though the part #'s are the same. When folded down, the curved outer surface should slant towards the front of the motorcycle.

    step 23 (top of page 28): the connection of hoses RF-17/18 and RG-01/02 is not clear in the manual. Use the 2015 Panigale 1299 S online parts catalog (referenced in general note #5 above) to help you sort these out, specifically the illustration below. I also used only piece each of hoses RF and RG in this step, and threaded the combined lengths through pieces T-10 and T-14/T-03 respectively.
    Image

    step 25 (top of page 29): to attach part V-09 you must remove the rear "D" screw from part # U-04 in step 2 (top of page 5) and replace it with the "F" screw noted in step 25.

    step 27 (page 30): I can now vouch for the ridiculous contortions required to attach the front cowl fairing via the mirror mounts. It appears this is the only real use for that silly miniature Phillips screwdriver included with the kit. First I attached the "D" screw shown in step 28 under the front center of the cowl to hold it in place. Then I removed the brake and clutch reservoirs with their brackets and rigid hoses from the handle bars to gain a bit more working room, and wished for little girl sized fingers for the next curse-filled hour. Definitely pre-thread the holes in the mirror mounts with a screw as shown in the Pocher video here https://youtu.be/zXLOQQjS248 , and pay attention to the angle the screws need to take from under the cowl into the mirror mounts. After some initial struggles, I magnetized and then modified my tiny screwdriver as shown below with two glued sections of rubber hose, so I could spin it between my thumb and index fingertip close to the screw it was holding in the cramped space under the cowl. To more easily locate the mirror mount/cowl/cowl mount combination in the right spot I first used an extra long "F" screw. Then I inserted a correct "D" screw in the adjoining hole, tightened it as best I could, and replaced the temporary "F" screw with another "D" screw. The other side becomes a bit more difficult because the cowl must be flexed to align the holes, but it is eventually doable, after which you may need a stiff drink.
    My modified screwdriver:
    Image


A quick photo of some of the extra work I did for fun. I was most excited about re-doing the brake line banjo connectors on part U-01 from step 4, then turned to page 29 and realized they would be completely covered by part H-08 even with the fairings removed. :laughing-rolling:
Image
Last edited by ScaleAutoWorks on Sat Mar 12, 2016 3:38 pm, edited 26 times in total.
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Re: Pocher Ducati building tips

Postby Mark » Sun Feb 07, 2016 6:41 pm

Thanks for posting these. I'm sure it will be greatly appreciated :D
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Re: Pocher Ducati building tips

Postby ScaleAutoWorks » Mon Feb 08, 2016 4:49 pm

[also added to original post above] For those of you who want to add extra details you can access the full set of expanded parts diagrams here http://www.ducati.com/services/maintenance/index.do . Use the "spare parts catalog" drop-down menus on the right side of the page to select 2015 Superbike 1299 Panigale S.
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Re: Pocher Ducati building tips

Postby Vandellyn » Tue Feb 09, 2016 3:55 am

I just received my Ducati this evening from Scale Autoworks and could not be more pleased. The kit is transcendent.

I've been lurking over a year on the site, devouring every message about Pocher, downloading instructions, following the builds, waiting. I had built the red Alfa back in 76, on a drilling ship off the coast of Egypt, and then the Mercedes in Norway and Houston in 78. Those were a challenge, even with many years building plastics and flying model planes as a teenager in Elgin. Carrying the Alfa back to Scotland was quite an adventure, but it survived intact. Other things to do- design chairs for astronauts and virtual reality, cameras, fridge for the space station, fiber optics for oil wells, a wonderful wife and son. And so I stopped modeling for 38 years.

Until today. Opening the huge box opened up my inner child again, and I can see many fine hours ahead filled with fun and smiling, and perhaps the occasional profanity when I screw up. It's all good.

The die castings are very well done, fine thin wall, well painted, no orange peel. So complex in space, only 3D prototyping and solid modeling could have made them succeed. The model designers must have worked directly off the Ducati computer models, because many of the surfaces are very complex. The tires are hard, just like the original Pochers, and they are huge- 6" dia. The plastics are mostly excellent to very good, some flash here and there, and I'll paint the grey ones as suggested above. The painted red parts are immaculate, even come in their own clear plastic protective shells. And the chain, good grief, a real chain. So many beautiful parts, it's like opening a jewelry box.

Well enough talk, on with the build.

See ya.
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Re: Pocher Ducati building tips

Postby ScaleAutoWorks » Fri Feb 12, 2016 10:33 pm

I was also very excited as soon as I opened the box, and still am. A few days ago I disassembled some of the model so I could paint the radiators, haven't had a chance to sit down with it since.
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Re: Pocher Ducati building tips

Postby Chadders87 » Sat Feb 13, 2016 12:02 am

Vandellyn wrote:...design chairs for astronauts and virtual reality, cameras, fridge for the space station, fiber optics for oil wells...


Welcome to the forum Vandellyn, sounds like theres a few stories there to tell :D Feel free to make your own build thread too as more is definitely better! We are all secretly (and openly) addicted to looking at other peoples builds so don't worry about repetition.
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Re: Pocher Ducati building tips

Postby Paul » Wed Feb 17, 2016 11:51 am

Hi ScaleAutoWorks,

Your general comments in your first post do appear to sum up all the Pocher kits (one Lambo Aventador done and one Ergh work in progress!).

I really hope that you enjoy building this kit. :D
Just :) to Cause a Landslide - Some :superlglue: will be included .....

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Re: Pocher Ducati building tips

Postby ScaleAutoWorks » Wed Feb 17, 2016 2:03 pm

I am really enjoying it, especially because I became a motorcycle junkie 10 years ago when a friend gave me his learner bike so he'd have someone to ride with. Haven't had a chance to touch the model for almost a week, need to recifty that. Can't wait to do the next build. Will add a full set of replacement bolts and safety wire it for the track.
Paul wrote:Hi ScaleAutoWorks,

Your general comments in your first post do appear to sum up all the Pocher kits (one Lambo Aventador done and one Ergh work in progress!).

I really hope that you enjoy building this kit. :D
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Re: Pocher Ducati building tips

Postby ScaleAutoWorks » Sat Feb 20, 2016 7:30 pm

There is a builder in Germany doing amazing things to his Pocher Ducati kit, photos are linked in his post http://ducati1299.com/ducati-1299/24126-pocher-model-panigale-1299-s-2.html#post240114

PS: is there a way to post a link that will open in a new tab, instead of leaving this forum?
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Re: Pocher Ducati building tips

Postby number1 » Sat Feb 20, 2016 9:46 pm

:o thats incredible!
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Re: Pocher Ducati building tips

Postby Chadders87 » Sun Feb 21, 2016 12:13 pm

ScaleAutoWorks wrote:is there a way to post a link that will open in a new tab, instead of leaving this forum?


No, but you can click a link to open in a new window. Either click it with the scroll wheel, or right click > open in new tab.
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Re: Pocher Ducati building tips

Postby ScaleAutoWorks » Sun Feb 21, 2016 3:07 pm

I assembled the swing arm and rear wheel last night, and the rear axle has a lot of slop both end to end and in the "bearing". Anyone else find this? I'll be double checking my (late night) assembly steps and then making some kind of shim to get rid of the wiggle.

Chadders87 wrote:
ScaleAutoWorks wrote:is there a way to post a link that will open in a new tab, instead of leaving this forum?


No, but you can click a link to open in a new window. Either click it with the scroll wheel, or right click > open in new tab.

Yes, just thought it would be nice if it opened in a new window automatically, i.e. "target="_blank".
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Re: Pocher Ducati building tips

Postby ScaleAutoWorks » Fri Feb 26, 2016 10:54 pm

I've updated the original post above with illustrations from the manual.
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Re: Pocher Ducati building tips

Postby norton » Fri Feb 26, 2016 11:49 pm

Do not want to contradict you but I assembled kit without shortening any screws, though some needed a bit of persuasion.
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Re: Pocher Ducati building tips

Postby ScaleAutoWorks » Sat Feb 27, 2016 1:48 am

norton wrote:Do not want to contradict you but I assembled kit without shortening any screws, though some needed a bit of persuasion.

Maybe there is some variation in the castings. I broke 3 or 4 screws trying to get them seated properly before I decided some needed shortening.
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Re: Pocher Ducati building tips

Postby Mark » Sat Feb 27, 2016 9:16 am

It was a DeAg 1/8 MP4/23, not a Pocher kit, but I had trouble getting some screws to seat fully. I wiped a smear of Vaseline on the threads and they went in a lot easier and drove home fully. I broke several before I started using the Vaseline... I think some of the holes were just a tad too small and the screws were binding instead of going in cleanly.
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Re: Pocher Ducati building tips

Postby ScaleAutoWorks » Sat Feb 27, 2016 3:38 pm

Mark wrote:It was a DeAg 1/8 MP4/23, not a Pocher kit, but I had trouble getting some screws to seat fully. I wiped a smear of Vaseline on the threads and they went in a lot easier and drove home fully. I broke several before I started using the Vaseline... I think some of the holes were just a tad too small and the screws were binding instead of going in cleanly.
Another good tip.

I started shortening some screws after breaking a few when I measured the depth of holes that were binding and some were obviously too short given the screw length and thickness of the parts they were attaching.
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Re: Pocher Ducati building tips

Postby Mark » Sun Feb 28, 2016 2:32 am

ScaleAutoWorks wrote:
I started shortening some screws after breaking a few when I measured the depth of holes that were binding and some were obviously too short given the screw length and thickness of the parts they were attaching.


That's a pretty conclusive reason :text-goodpost:
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Re: Pocher Ducati building tips

Postby ScaleAutoWorks » Wed Mar 02, 2016 4:44 pm

As I finish up the engine details in preparation for mounting the fairings the official Ducati parts catalog diagrams referenced in my first post are becoming essential to sorting out the connection of many wires and hoses.
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Re: Pocher Ducati building tips

Postby ScaleAutoWorks » Thu Mar 03, 2016 5:17 pm

I'm now at the point where the last 20% of building a model seems to take 50% of the total time, because the final steps are always more visible.

I've replaced the most visible screws on the right side of the engine with hex head bolts I had on hand. It's tricky, since scale bolts have a smaller threaded diameter than the Phillips screws they replace. I drilled some holes deeper to a smaller diameter to accept the smaller threads, and just glued in some others.

I also cut the plastic bolt heads off the brake line banjo fittings on parts U-01 (step 4) and the rear brake master cylinder (step 22), then drilled them and added real bolts and washers.
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