Takom 1/35 Tiger II with Zimmerit

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Takom 1/35 Tiger II with Zimmerit

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Takom 1/35 Tiger II with Zimmerit

Postby snapdragon » Fri Nov 11, 2016 1:15 pm

The power of the dark side is strong with this kit!

I couldn't resist any longer and so, with extra parts arriving on a daily basis I've started.

The first thing I wanted to look at was the main gun. RB Models's Pak 43 88mm /L71 dropped through the letterbox and so, removing the barrel from the sprue I lined it up and....

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There is a discrepancy in the barrel length but it is hardly noticeable. Also, more noticeable is that the kit barrel is noticeably thicker towards the muzzle. I had to alter where the plastic barrel fits into the mantle but that's just lots of dry fitting and a very sharp knife. Once built up fully and painted then it will add to the overall look of the kit.

I would also like to introduce you to the actual colour of the base coat used on these tigers with series turret and zimmerit.

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Now the decals in this kit provide for this actual tank:

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Here is another photo of this Tiger II from the Pz. Abt.503. someone has "colorised" it. If you look close and compare the colours with the actual black and white image you can see that the tank colours in the colourised version do not match the shades, which are darker. Also the actual B&W image cannot distinguish between the red-brown and green of the disruptive pattern, althjough for some reason the "colourised" version has. The clothing colour of the soldiers is very close to the real thing but you must make allowances for combat clothing and the stuff they and their wearers go through.

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If you look carefully at the black and white image and then, ignoring the colourised, take the base coat from my Tiger II and compare it, it is much closer to the photographs that the almost white used by the colourised images. with that particular shade used in the colourised image it should be the same on the B&W image.... and it isn't!

Those that say they can tell an actual colour and shade from a B&W picture taken in wartime they are lying through their teeth. Due to the constraints of film, camera, lighting etc it is impossible. We can get an indication of pattern etc, but to get the colours you have to go into the archives and research that tank back to the factory and not only the factory notes but the regiment it was assigned to and their maintenance records. Also you have to research the paint batch back to the manufacturer which today is still producing paint and has an impressive archive of every batch of paint produced and a colour sample of that batch.

So, using akan's paints we can successfully paint this Tiger the correct colours inside and out!
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Re: Takom 1/35 Tiger II with Zimmerit

Postby steve131 » Fri Nov 11, 2016 3:27 pm

:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :lol:
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Re: Takom 1/35 Tiger II with Zimmerit

Postby steve131 » Fri Nov 11, 2016 3:39 pm

Like the base coat ,not a fan of black and white photos like you say miss so much in them. same with the black and white painting guides not as good as colour you get now. Keep up good work :clap: :dance:
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Re: Takom 1/35 Tiger II with Zimmerit

Postby snapdragon » Sat Nov 12, 2016 10:52 am

With reference to the above photos something has been niggling me.

1. The photo was taken in October 1944 during operation Iron Fist with the aim of replacing the Hungarian Government with forces loyal to Nazi Germany. We have a place (Budapest), time - October 1944 and dates - Operation Ion Fist.

2. Photographic evidence shows us that this Tiger II has the running gear not in the official base coat of Dunkelgelb RAL 7023

3. Although hard to tell from the actual photos but referencing the colourised photos it seems that the running gear may be Green - RAL 6003.

4. Knowing the timeline of painting orders, that the overall green base coat wasn't officially implemented until January 1945, Did this Tiger II leave the factory as per painting orders or was an overall green base coat done as there was a shortage of Dunkelgelb, or was it a field modification done during a maintainance or refit at the batallion field repair areas.

5. Ad we cannot see the lower hull properly because of the running gear and the photo itself I have to make a jump and paint the wheels green and leave the lower hull Dark Yellow. Using timeline and photographic evidence. It will probably give better definitions to the running gear having a different background.

Getting stuff right sometimes makes you :angry-banghead:
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Re: Takom 1/35 Tiger II with Zimmerit

Postby steve131 » Sat Nov 12, 2016 10:24 pm

Totes agree :lol: but worth it in the end. You could do one of your old vehicles ,should have plenty photos and memories ,be a good diary :think:
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Re: Takom 1/35 Tiger II with Zimmerit

Postby Mark » Sun Nov 13, 2016 8:02 am

steve131 wrote:You could do one of your old vehicles ,should have plenty photos and memories ,be a good diary :think:


Perhaps a nice British Mk 1 tank ???? :whistle: :whistle: :whistle: :whistle: :whistle: :whistle:
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Re: Takom 1/35 Tiger II with Zimmerit

Postby snapdragon » Sun Nov 13, 2016 6:52 pm

Cheeky git, Mark! :D

In actual fact, I have been considering a WWI tank for a while but not sure which brand is best. I need to do some more investigation before acquiring one.

Back to the Tiger II. Already I am hitting fit problems and I have had to rip out what I had already built, adjust some parts and rebuild.

I had already painted the parts and assembled according to the instructions and then found out that because fitted parts are just slightly too wide then the two main sides that support and fix the suspension won't fit. Out come the base brackets and have to be shortened at both sides by 0.05mm!

Everything has been rebuilt and has to go back into the paint shop!

Photos to follow.

Having fit problems right at the very start of the build is going to mean carefully checking every part! This, combined with the shells and racks moulded together says to me that these kits have been rushed to beat Meng to the market. It's a shame is that as both companies Tigers will fit into the market side by side comfortabley. Both have a different approach.
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Re: Takom 1/35 Tiger II with Zimmerit

Postby steve131 » Sun Nov 13, 2016 8:26 pm

Did you have fit issues with your other Takoms or is it just this one as you say rushed out. :?:
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Re: Takom 1/35 Tiger II with Zimmerit

Postby snapdragon » Sun Nov 13, 2016 9:26 pm

To some degree I seem to have fit issues with all my Takoms to some degree. some more than others. I tend to feel though with this Tiger II that it has been rushed a little to get it onto the market place before Meng. Most of the kits fit fine, it just seems like certain bits have been missed out on checking. I will post pictures with explanations.
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Re: Takom 1/35 Tiger II with Zimmerit

Postby Mark » Mon Nov 14, 2016 3:34 pm

I've yet to build a Takom kit, although I have one in the stash. The detail looks good though. I suspect that they are a bit like Bronco. On my SU152 the fit was very good and the detail was excellent, but it wasn't terribly well engineered and was difficult to get things lined up properly. Still, it's nothing a modeller can't solve with either filler or a sanding stick !!

Looking forward to seeing some more photos James !
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Re: Takom 1/35 Tiger II with Zimmerit

Postby snapdragon » Tue Nov 15, 2016 11:21 pm

Here's a small update

The paints are here!

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Everything apart from the interior white which is acrylic enamel is enamel paint and match the period RAL chart exactly.

As mentioned above I had a fit problem with the very core of the interior which meant that everything had to me removed, adjusted where needed and put back in. This spoiled the paint job I had done on individual parts.

Here is a photo of the rebuild.

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Number 1 on the photo.

These have to be adjusted by 0.25 of a millimetre split between both sides to fit. It is best to do those when the interior sides are already in place.

Number 2 on the photo.

Ignore the instructions. To get these to fit properly and flush with the sides and bottom of the lower hull paint and fit first then fit the bottom supports from front to back, adjusting the sides to fit as you do, then fit the two middle suspension guides and supports before fitting any other parts. It is important that these are absolutely 100% correctly in place or anything else won't fit properly.

Here's the repaint under way. The red primer RAL 8012 is done. Once cured it will be masked off and the cream white repainted.

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Before I add any more internal detail which some has already been built up and painted ready to be installed I want to assemble, paint and fit all the suspension and swing arms. Better now than later on in the build when quite a bit of the internal parts are in and there's no room to get fingers. At the moment there's plenty of room to make sure that the torsion bars and swing arms fit into place correctly and are secured. Looking at the hole where the the swing arm fits there is a peg hole so I don't think the swing arm works so a working suspension may not be a feature.

I'll cover this more deeply in my next post. No fingers were posted missing during the refit. This is making me tread a bit more carefully and think outside the box over the build. I just wonder what Men's Tiger II will offer and how it will differ from the Takom Kits.
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Re: Takom 1/35 Tiger II with Zimmerit

Postby Mark » Wed Nov 16, 2016 6:26 am

Good save James. Coming on nicely now.

Regarding the British Tank, I'd avoid the Takom offering unless you go for replacement tracks. Apparently their tracks (on the Mk IV at least) have about half a dozen parts per link !! Enough to drive you to drink !! The Tamiya kit goes together very well. You can get aftermarket barrels, but the kit ones are perfectly round and in one piece, so it's not really necessary to replace them.
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Re: Takom 1/35 Tiger II with Zimmerit

Postby snapdragon » Fri Nov 25, 2016 10:28 pm

Time for an update.

With fit problems Identified I decided to deal with the torsion bars and swing arms and road wheels while there is room to play with.

Forst of all I finished repainting the lower hull

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Then the torsion bars and road wheels were primed. There are 4 different road wheels for the Tiger II and Takom have reproduced them accurately.

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Xtreme metal Steel was applied.

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Torsion bars and swing arms built as per the instruction and time to put them in and....... WTF? :angry-banghead:

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They don't fit and are extremely tight. these is a design flaw in the swing arm. Can you spot it in the next picture?

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Yes. There is an uneven taper where the swing arm fits into the hull. it pulls the torsion bar off centre which is corrected by the guides inside the hull which then pulls the tapered bit off and won't let the part sit right.

I have a fix which will be posted next time. I also have to put some more stuff in the front first!
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Re: Takom 1/35 Tiger II with Zimmerit

Postby steve131 » Fri Nov 25, 2016 11:47 pm

:think: Seems like rushing it out to be first is biting them back, Nothing a son of Yorkshire can't fix. 8-)
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Re: Takom 1/35 Tiger II with Zimmerit

Postby snapdragon » Sun Nov 27, 2016 1:15 pm

Here's another update with a fix to the suspension/swing arm issue.

After separating the torsion bar from the swing arm and adding some gear to the front that I missed plus the painting needed the bars were installed on their own, secured at the locking end with a small amount of glue.

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Takom actually help with the angle fitting of the swing arm by having a directional slot and pin in the mounting hole. Rhere is a difference between the inner and outer swing arms for the fitting with a wide and narrow slot and pin. Also the arms themselves are different.

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The fix is an easy one, but shouldn't have to be done at all. Each swing arm has to be cut down as in the picture.

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Doing this eliminates the incorrect portion of the swing arm to hull fitting area that causes the swing arm not to fit snugly where it should. A drop of glue and get the pin and slot in the correct angle and:

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A snug fit at the correct angle.

I did a dry fit on the roadwheels and they fit nicely and sit flat to the floor and with the angle they are set at look as if there is 68 tons of steel sitting on them.

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That's the fix for the swing arms and torsion bar suspension. This is best done before any interior detail apart from the needed parts for fitting the torsion bars is put in. It is my personal opinion this should not have to be done and will affect all Takoms King Tigers and shows either sloppy quality control/checking or a rush to market.
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Re: Takom 1/35 Tiger II with Zimmerit

Postby steve131 » Sun Nov 27, 2016 9:20 pm

:clap: Well done that Man.
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Re: Takom 1/35 Tiger II with Zimmerit

Postby snapdragon » Tue Dec 06, 2016 9:46 pm

Sorry about the delay for an update. I had a computer issue and then some social engagements took precedence!

For those intending to build this kit and to make the tracks look a bit more realistic (and this took me some working out) then the recommendation is for these tracks:

http://www.friulmodel.hu/en/atl-16-tiger-ii-hunting-tiger-i20/

These are correct for a Tiger II series ("Henschel") Turret with Zimeritt and if both companies have got their maths correct then they should fit the drive sprocket.

If you are going to do the Initial turret ("Porsche") with Zimeritt then the following link provides the correct track

http://www.friulmodel.hu/en/atl-22-tiger-ii-hunting-tiger-i26/

I have ordered the ATL-16 set direct from the makers in Hungary and I received an Email this morning to say that they were now in the care of the great Hungarian/European/Royal Mail Postal System :angry-banghead: :laughing-rolling:

However - Progress has been made on the interior.

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I am ignoring the kit painting directions and going from original records and documentary evidence. In this Vehicle (Tiger 223 503 Heavy Tank Battalion Operation Panzerfaust/Iron Fist October 1944, Budapest) The gearbox, Final Drive covers, drive shaft and turret rotational gear as well as the battery housings was RAL 7009. This is due to the fact tthat OKW painting orders for third party suppliers to the Henschel production line specified this. These orders were rescinded in very late 1944, but RAL 7009 painted equipment was installed and used by the army until the end of the war due to stockpiling. very few non painted vehicle equipment actually made it into tanks until March 1945. The exception was to engines which from the start of production for the Tiger II was left in their natural metal to make them available at an increased rate to both production and field repair units.

The Dunkelgelb base coat was primarily used on vehicles and armour with very little going on storage equipment such as ammunition containers etc which remained RAL 7009 to the end of the war. There were exceptions to this rule.

As you can see above, quite a bit of progress has been made and I am just preparing and painting the firewall and elements of the engine compartment as well as some of the fighting compartment equipment which Takom has seen fit to mould onto flooring elements - Doesn't make them easy to mask and paint and would have been easier to have as separate pieces!
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Re: Takom 1/35 Tiger II with Zimmerit

Postby steve131 » Wed Dec 21, 2016 6:32 pm

Excellent progress ,will try to get one of these next Black Friday .
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